shyness epiphany

[GroovyCD]

At work today, I was socializing with two extroverted co-workers. I wasn't completely comfortable, but I was able to get a few words in every once in a while. Then, a third extrovert came up, and I found that whenever I wanted to say something one of the other girls beat me to it by one or two seconds. I started feeling extremely awkward, because I was just standing there and not contributing to the conversation.

I had an epiphany: this is a large part of why I am shy! When your style of conversation is constantly thwarted, it is natural that you start to question whether you're an interesting person and worthwhile to talk to. Because it is (apparently) acceptable for extroverts to hijack a conversation, introverts lose respect for themselves and the respect of others.

[Alex]

Personally I find it almost impossible to maintain a conversation if the subject doesn't interest me - and definantly my bodylanguage will display my disinterest - this is particularly the case for group conversations, because they are very often of a very superficial nature and seems often just used as a way to bond(in a group)

[Orion]

I think I remember Marti discussing in The Introvert Advantage that extroverts emotions feed into action (I don't remember that small part of the brain, near the center, sorry I will look it up at some point), while that same part of the brain in introverts activates inner monologue.  So I think it makes sense that introverts will feel "interrupted" during actual conversation, when in fact, they ARE contributing, but with their minds (in monologue). 

[Mandy_]

For me, I think that I miss the conversation boat sometimes. 

If extroverts think while they are already talking and introverts need to form the thought and then express it, that would explain why the extroverts have already moved on in their topic of conversation, leaving me waiting for a break in the conversation so I could express my carefully formed thought.

It's been a while since I read Marti's book, but if I recall correctly, it's now been scientifically proven the the information pathways in an introvert's brain are longer and different than those of an extroverts.

Sometimes it takes me a while to search the hard drive of my brain to find the information or words that I'm trying to express.  I don't think as quickly as some people.  As a result I'm lousy with witty responses.

I didn't know what an introvert was until I was well into my 40s.  When I was young I was very shy.  Now I'm not so shy.

But, I totally agree with you Groovy.  When a person feels that their style of conversation is not the "desired" style, it's more likely that we will be shy about expressing ourselves.

I wish I could speed up the information retrieval part of my brain, because I'd be a better conversationalist if I could.  I'd appear more confident and better informed.  People might respond to me a little better and then I might feel more confident when I attempt to socialize.

[hspKaty]

I think you're onto something there..   I never thought of it that way.  Also, when "friends" ask you something and then don't wait to hear your answer.. they start talking over you.   Grrrrrr.

Katy

[ShadowCutter]

I had that problem in high school. my friends and I would be sitting around between classes and chatting and every time I started to say something, someone else said something first, and they were louder than I felt I could be so I couldn't talk over them (and didn't necessarily want to anyway). Then there'd be a pause finally and they'd turn to me and say "why are you always so quiet?"  now I don't usually try to say anything unless there's enough of a pause for me to get the words together and out, and it seems like that pause needs to be longer and longer and doesn't happen much.

also when someone asks me a question, especially about what I want to do or what I think about something, I say "I don't know" even if I do, because that's the only answer that comes immediately and I feel like they want an immediate answer.

[flame]

Hi. I'm new to this site and just read Shadowcutter's last post which triggered a memory of when I lived with this person years ago who always talked...I could never get a word in edgeways and it became so frustrating as i only felt like I HAD to reply BECAUSE he was talking! I didn't actually want to talk at all, and wouldn't after a while, as there was no point...he wouldn't let me! Then, after a good 2 hours of listening to him ramble on about nothing, he would eventually run out of steam, which gave me the opportunity to speak, but, by then I had forgotten what I actually wanted to say, having waited so long to say it! Then, to really top it all off, he would complain to me about how I never talk!!!AAAaaarrgghh! I'm surprised I haven't ended up in the loony bin to be honest, with the amount of times crazy interactions like this have happened to me!

[Hidden Wolf]

I'm shy, too. Interruptions are one of my pet peeves. It makes me lose my place and it's really embarrassing when I have to take five minutes to remember a few words. It's just very disrespectful to me. In the past, people would talk over me or when I did talk they wouldn't listen to anything I said. Infuriating me furter, they also ask why didn't I say anything earlier and to not be nervous, when in actuality, I'm upset because I was disrespected. Now I'm learning to say, "Hey, I'm not done." "May I say something?" or "I'm still thinking at the moment."

[Quiet]

It's remarkable to find out that we are not alone in this situation.  I always hate it when someone talks over me. I hate being asked questions only to have the brain delay or freeze everyone has mentiones.

[flame]

Me too. It makes me feel like I'm slow and people get impatient with me and that makes it a thousand times worse! If they only knew what their comments, their words...how they affect us.

[niki]

Talk about an epiphany, I am sooo glad I found out about this introvert stuff (which wasn't until about 2 weeks ago, at the age of 42 - oh, to have known all this when I was younger!) It has totally and completely turned my life around.

And finding this forum is just awesome. I can relate to everything I've read on a level I'd never dreamed possible. I was just going to lurk around a bit and maybe say a thing or two here or there but the heck with that - how can I pass up a chance to express myself, with people who totally understand and won't think I'm a weirdo or suffering from some form of mental illness?? And they won't interrupt, either, even if they could lol. I've died and gone to heaven!

I was also excruciatingly, painfully - cripplingly - shy most of my life and I had no clue this was why. Until I read Marti's book, of course. My whole past just clicked into place in the blink of an eye. Especially my shyness. It all made sense.

Over the past 10 years or so, I'd managed to get over quite a big chunk of my shyness, mostly because I became a member of Alcoholic's Anonymous in '97. Talking to crowds of people and being sociable for over an hour at a time, many nights of the week, is sort of expected of you lol. So for 10 years, I've always pushed myself to do that. It has been a slow and painful process, I never even spoke in a discussion meeting until I was 5 years sober and could screw up enough courage to raise my hand.  I still find it difficult and I don't share much at meetings, even though they're practically custom-made for introverts - when you raise your hand to share, everyone else in the room shuts up until you are done talking! No interrupting allowed lol.

If it wasn't for that simple AA politeness, patience and respect, I don't think I could've gotten over my shyness because I was full of too much fear. Growing up in my family, you weren't often allowed to finish a sentence or given much time to get your thoughts together.  And if you were stupid enough to give an opinion, it was criticized. Usually viciously. That's not exactly a conducive atmosphere for developing good social skills lol. I can see now that it literally crippled me as an introvert and, of course, I thought it was all my fault.

Then I reached a point about 2 years ago where I said to myself, Niki, you have GOT to get over the rest of this shyness. I'd already done of lot of work on my fears but I still had quite a bit of social anxiety leftover and I couldn't seem to figure out why. I just wanted to be rid of it once and for all because I thought that was what was wrong with me. I thought if I could just be "normal" (and by that, I now know I meant "extroverted) then I'd be happy and everything would be ok.

But I couldn't seem to push past the last vestiges of my shyness, no matter how hard I tried. What I was really trying to do was become a social butterfly. Because I thought I was supposed to be that way.  All the happy people I saw seemed to be like that and I so desperately just wanted to be happy, to get a sense of permanent serenity that other people seemed to have.

After reading Marti's book, I realized the last little bit of my shyness I was trying so desperately to get rid of was really just my introversion, something I can't change. I was trying to make ME not me anymore.

It is such a blessed relief to finally know that I'm an introvert - and what that means - and to stop trying to make myself something I'm not. I can just be OK with me now. As cliche as it sounds, it's like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. And I didn't even know it was there.

As if I haven't written enough....I could sooo relate to all the awkward conversations - the waiting for a pause (and never finding one), the not thinking I could speak loudly enough that someone wouldn't just run right over what I had to say, people getting impatient (and even angry) with me for not having a quick answer. And then wondering why I'm so quiet?? Yep, yep, yep, that's my whole life. 

There was a social situation I experienced that I've never quite been able to figure out....

I was once working with a group of five people I didn't know for a sort of Iron Chef competition. (Totally non-professional, it was just a fun game they did at my local community college to help raise money or something.) So we had to work together as a group to figure out what we were going to cook and how to best go about it. One woman quickly assumed the lead, which was fine with me. I always look for the easiest path in social situations (to make it less painful) and being a follower rather than a leader is always easier.

So we were grouped in a circle discussing our strategy and this woman would place herself in such a way as to try and push me out of the circle. It really stunned me because, of course, I'm quiet so I doubt I could've said anything to offend her yet she was being incredibly rude (or at least, I thought so.) She didn't know me from Adam and I don't even think I got a chance to say anything before she started positioning herself to push me out of the circle.

I was well over a lot of my shyness at this time in my life and wasn't as concerned anymore about what people thought of me, so I didn't get offended, either. That kind of thing has only happened to me that once (that I can remember anyway. Who knows, maybe I've blocked out a whole slew of such experiences) but I'm usually never in a situation like that. I was just wondering if that is a common sort of experience for introverts...or if it's just me lol.

[flame]

Hi niki,
 It sounds like the woman you mentioned is quite a dominating person and possibly percieves you to be a "push-over" because you are quiet...she knows you aren't going to be rude back or even speak up to her so she walks all over you...because she CAN!
 If you watch hens behaving with other hens...man, it's like high school! That's where the term "the pecking order" comes from I believe? The "stronger" ones step on the "weaker" ones to claim their place in the coup...it can be brutal!
 The way people seem to percieve dominating competitive behaviour as demonstrating "strength" has always baffled me...quiet people are strong in their own way...it's just unfortunate the rest of the world doesn't see that strength, but the exact opposite! I guess the only thing you can do if that situation arises again...with the same person even, is to not let her! If you can somehow not be so startled by the persons rude behaviour (which is hard enough in itself for us...(I used to always think of what I should have said or done later after the scenario has passed, and kick myself!) but stand your ground instead, you can let her know that you aren't going to stand for her rudeness without losing your cool...making eye contact with her and keeping it and speaking in a confident way that lets her know you mean it!
 You can't really change her in any way...she sounds like the sort of person that will probably go far in the corporate world or big business where that sort of behaviour is praised and encouraged...all you can do is not let her get away with it!

[niki]

Hi Flame, I never even thought of standing up for myself lol. I suppose if it had been a situation I really cared about rather than a silly competition (I've never understood competitiveness), I would have reacted differently. But it didn't seem worth it to try and expend energy in trying to change the situation, especially since it didn't "bother" me so much as puzzle me. I had never run across anyone like that before.

[Deidrejay]

The thing that's hard about those situations is firstly registering it's happening and then figuring out what to do and what to say so the situation has long passed. It's natural for introverts as it takes us longer to decide what to do and we're not so good when caught on the hop.

I also agree that I've been in conversations where I've not been able to get a word in edgewise and then the topic has passed. I can certainly understand the frustration when later on accused of being "too quiet".

I think it's good to come up with some strategies for these situations to have at our disposal. This would include getting into a group conversation when we want to say something, dealing with rudeness and so forth. I'll start a new thread on this.

[radames]

In these conversations I would constantly be waiting for my turn, or for people to finish a thought.  Of course, this never turned out well for me because the more exuberant personalities practically interrupted another person before they were finished with their thoughts.  It didn't seem that the outies cared though.  It was like they forgot their train of thought and immediately focused on what the other person was saying.
For me it was so awkward because they would try to help me out by waiting for me to plug in my thoughts that there would be a very distinguishable lull in the conversation which I knew was caused by me.  Of course, if you don't have something amazingly interested, or pointless, to say then you would hear a bit of a giggle or have the weird looks among the other members of the group.
Nowadays I decide that it is best to simply act as though I am part of the group but focus my attention on things going on outside of the group until the group says something I am interested in.