Author Topic: better cultures for introverts?  (Read 16706 times)

tom.nadeau

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better cultures for introverts?
« on: April 24, 2008, 01:37:09 AM »
I remember my mother clipped an article for me a long time ago about introverts, and how in America we idealize extroverts, whereas in France introverts are the ideal. 

Author Marti Laney says in her book Introvert Advantage that introversion is much more accepted in Europe in general.  It seems to be especially true in northern Europe, seemingly overlapping with the traditionally Protestant cultures of Scandinavia, England, Scotland and northern Germany.

It got me thinking... would I be happier living in France (assuming I could ever speak perfect French, since the French are so unforgiving of anything less) or some other part of Europe?

What about other cultures?  Can it be said that Japan and other Asian countries similarly idealize introversion or at least consider it the norm?

Maybe that's why I became attracted to those cultures? 

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

shelby

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 11:40:47 AM »
Wow, that's really interesting - makes a lot of sense to me - even though I was born and raised in North America, my genetic heritage is completely of the  United Kingdom, and I've always been inexplicably drawn to their attitudes, lifestyle, humour, etc. and never could relate to the extraversion here - maybe nature is stronger than nurture!

But it does pose interesting questions for culture in general - perhaps extraversion is not the worldly ideal as most of us were led to believe - and if someone were to do a study on introverts and their genetic backgrounds - perhaps a lot of us descended from Europeans! I think moving to another culture to escape extroverts is a bit drastic though. But it raises a valid point that the extroversion ideal is perhaps a societal fabrication.
shelby

DavidX

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 12:33:17 PM »
I think Japan and China are more accepting of introversion.  I do NOT like that attitude here that introversion needs to be "cured".  :(

Orion

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 07:31:35 PM »
I feel if you are a student, maybe you can try studying abroad in Japan, or any other country. But sometimes it is more comfortable to be in familiar surroundings which is fine.

I agree in that America rewards extroverts. This is because in order for America to function, it needs consumers, and extroverts make better consumers.  (Why do you think so much money is put into the media systems to attack introverts? We are the natural enemy to the way this country functions, just by definition.)

While we can feel frustrated about the United States, we have huge/vast open spaces.  Although the United Kingdom for example (half of my ethnicity) may promote introverts, the UK has 60 million people on island about the size of New York State!  Europe is very dense, and that alone (or at least that perception) makes me like the United States even just for the reason of vast open spaces, to expand the mind, explore, relax.

What many Americans may be lacking is a sort of culture experience because consumerism is a recyclable system.  Most people don't have too much history -- we lose touch with our background.  I think in another post you mentioned you were half Persian in ethnicity.  That alone can bring up tons of interesting aspects of history and art, such as Xerxes or Persepolis.

The United States, although we have racial problems, is actually a very tolerant culture. Remember, European countries were made based on their ethnic origins, and hence can be very xenophobic. Norway has norwegians, UK -- Anglo-Saxons, former Yugoslavis (Slavs). The USA has the benefit of really being a country for everyone, even though daily people suffer racial attacks, and other hostilities.  Many Europeans in their respective country (Italians in Italy or wherever) really do not like foreigners at all. It is the nature of the ethno-country. (Coined a term there haha).

Even though the USA touts extroversion, introverts I feel if they spend time growing and constantly learning, they can lead some of the best lives any introvert could anywhere else.

In any case, most of my family in the UK is introverted, and they are fine. I am just trying to help spin what you said back in case it helps, maybe it doesn't I dunno.

I feel when I have been trapped, I have wanted to leave, when what I needed to help myself  has always been right under my nose.



INTP

radames

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2008, 09:40:51 PM »
I think I would like Japan or France.  I spoke Creole (French dialect) when younger and am more fluent to the French language because of this, yet I have always heard of Japan (or China) as THE innie nation.  They are always about balance, poise, and wear blue a lot (in a lot of the movies I have seen) and love the healing properties of nature and the environment.  I am also a Libra, so Japan sounds very nice to me.

tom.nadeau

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2008, 04:04:38 PM »
radames - 

Who is that a picture of (your icon)?  If that's you, I think you'll be very popular in Japan (with the girls!).   ;)

But that's probably not you, right?  It's probably some famous Reggae artist whom everyone recogizes but me, right?  (Well, it's not Bob Marley, is it?  That would be really embarrassing if I didn't even recognize HIS photo!)

By the way, what was that about wearing blue?  Is blue supposed to be a favorite color of innies or something?

Orion

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2008, 04:48:46 PM »
Yeah that is Bob Marley. Blue is a "safe" color in  the sense it doesn't offend any culture (which is why corporations use it a lot for logos, etc). Certain colors mean things to different cultures, and blue for the most part is unoffensive.
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Adam

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 09:59:51 AM »
Interesting topic. I have thought of countries such as Switzerland and Germany to reward introverts - the landscape is beautiful and everyone gets on with their business. Your are not judged on your outwardness there - instead it is all about perfecting the inner self - this is something I feel strongly about.

I have always thought about moving to somewhere like Switzerland and Germany. Not only do the people suit introverts better, but so does the landscape, housing etc...many people have a tendency to say the Germans and Swiss are boring - but in actual fact they're just innies - like Albert Einstein.
An extrovert in the class asks, "Why are you so quiet?"
The Introvert (me) remains silent.

wild b

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 07:19:35 AM »
This from a book I read:

The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner

On the British:
 
 "Personal information is doled out judiciously, like premium chocolate or fine wine. As any economist will tell you, scarcity creates value. So when  a Brit opens up, exposes their wounds, where it hurts, this is more valuable, more meaningful,than when an American does it. For the first time since I  arrived in Britain, I appreciate the virtue of reticence."

It's an interesting book on the "happiest" places on earth.


Orion

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2008, 04:33:52 PM »
Quote
"Personal information is doled out judiciously, like premium chocolate or fine wine. As any economist will tell you, scarcity creates value. So when  a Brit opens up, exposes their wounds, where it hurts, this is more valuable, more meaningful,than when an American does it. For the first time since I  arrived in Britain, I appreciate the virtue of reticence."

Yes, and believe me I understand what you said from personal familial experience -- however if too much is held back, the person begins to become a ghost, and causes wretched emotional pain (on my end) from me not receiving ANY emotional feedback/backup from that individual.  If someone cannot express themselves, it becomes gut wrenchingly infuriating when I  get the same reaction from them no matter how great or how bad the event/situation/conversation had occurred/been discussed etc.  Yes it may feel rewarding to "finally" get through -- but I have spent (and wasted) many years and emotional energy trying to get an excited rise out of an individual that is supposed to provide me with inspiration/encouragement, and whom has shown more excitement to people he doesn't even know as well! Years of effort and I get nothing, ten minutes of time with the other person (whom he doesn't even know) and gets the approval/emotional validation I have been seeking for years. This is one kind of pain I hope no one goes through!

I only learn from this by seeing I need to only care and approve myself, but being me (an INTP and I bet that config contributes to this behavior) is that I need physical/emotional evidence/meaning for nearly everything.  I think this pain was mainly brought about also by not understanding I did not need to please this person.  It feels like betrayal, even though I know that is over the top. I bet one can infer whom I am talking about here, but if you can't I'd rather not say.

This person has shown immense support to me, immense care, immense love, but something I am feeling (which I just discussed above) has been making me much more mad. 

Why do I need such approval from this individual? If I show him one of my greatest art pieces I feel I have made a long time, all I get is "That's nice." Same reaction if I told him I met up with a friend, etc etc, and then HE wonders what's wrong with me if I don't show him enthusiasm for what HE's interested in! 

So I don't mean to burst your bubble, but stoicism does have its incredible faults!
INTP

wild b

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2008, 08:12:57 AM »
well Orion Some people just don't appreciate premium chocolate or fine wine!

When I show people my "art" they alway say "That's cute!!" I didn't realize you were an artist. What kind of art do you do? Mine is fabric dolls (introverted) but I want to get into collage with old photos of women, the kind where the people aren't smiling.

Some how I thought you where a "science" guy. I'm intimadated by all you people that have all those degrees! I didn't do well in school!

giggle

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 01:50:55 AM »
 :(I'm a Asian , chinese , I feel that extroverts are being more admired in our society nowadays . 

Kory

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2008, 08:02:52 PM »
Not sure if this helps, but I just got back from Colombia a couple weeks ago. They seem to be a more extroverted people in that country, but they did go out of their way to make an introvert like me comfortable with them. Usually I back off of people who seem friendlier than I anticipate them to be, but for some reason this time I felt very at ease with them.

A. H.

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2008, 07:41:19 PM »
maybe a country that is "less judgmental" (Colombia) would be better than a "more-introverted" country?

Denmark is supposed to be introverted. or, at least, they don't talk to strangers. or smile or anything like that.

gemaniko

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Re: better cultures for introverts?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 09:53:31 AM »
i cant think of any country would value extraversion more than the USA does.

correct me if i'm wrong

There is! Balkans (espetially Bosnia and Serbia). It's like one big village with hooligans and MANY primitive people...